Curse

Seraphim of Chaos · Oct 12, 2007, 12:46 AM // 00:46

What is your opinion on the most pivotal profession in TA?

Of course, a good anything is very important in TA (except maybe Elementalists...). However, there are just some professions that if played very well, tip the whole breakpoint in a battle.

For me, the most pivotal professions in TA currently is the Ranger and the Mesmer. A D-shotted ZB or a Diversioned RoF will ruin a team more than a good shock axe.

TheOneMephisto · Oct 12, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

No such thing as a most pivotal profession, as each profession makes it's own contributions that make or break the game, with each of them playing off the other's successes.

For instance, if you dshot ZB the enemy team can just go into full defensive mode, start linebacking your warrior, kite extremely well, midline go into disrupting offense, and I'm sure that they'll survive for 20 seconds until the monk can stabilize health (remember that he can still prot). To take advantage of that dshotted ZB, you have to have a warrior that knows how to turn on the pressure, a midline that knows how and when to push, and a monk that can make survive for long enough to make sure that you don't overextend too many resources. Without all those parts, against a decent team you won't be able to break them even if you manage to open up weaknesses.

I can't really pinpoint a profession that would be the most important, as they're all just so necessary to win against a good team. I guess if you were forced to, you'd put your weakest player on a midline role (preferably something fairly easy to play, along the lines of bsurge or MoR dom). However, with weaker midline players you're going to be putting more pressure on your monk and/or warrior to play well.

Teh [prefession]-zorz · Oct 12, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

A good powerblock mesmer. lol

Legendary Shiz · Oct 12, 2007, 02:12 AM // 02:12

If I have to pick one for the sake of this thread not failing, it's monk. If your monk is trash you'll be rolled regardless of the talent around him.

However Panda hit it on the head, there's no one pivotal position that makes or breaks a team. If one person in the group fails at their job, the group itself fails. TA doesn't leave a lot of room for people to fail, when somebody is bad it's easy to tell.

Div · Oct 12, 2007, 02:24 AM // 02:24

With only four people, one person being bad ruins the team. That should sum it up pretty well.

Seraphim of Chaos · Oct 12, 2007, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Hm, well, I'm not asking how bad someone can be. I'm interested in what profession people think are more important.

Zui · Oct 12, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Everyone being good is important in Team Arenas, and any player in any role can win/loose the game for your team. If your Monk is bad, and can't deal with any kind of shutdown or interrupts and doesn't kite in addition, you're going to loose. If your main damage guy doesn't understand how to kill things, you're not going to win (which is essentially the same thing as loosing, although one could write an essay on the differences...). Really anyone not knowing how to play, or even making a mistake, can cost you games.

Monk is pretty good, but makes a mistake after a streak of 15 and reacts with the wrong skill, resulting in a player death you never recover from? It happens. Meleehate RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs up and someone dies because of it, a death you never recover from? This happens too. Additionally, player roles are interdependant. If your Warrior is bad, your team is going to feel a lot more pressure, because the other team has to spend less resources on making sure they don't die, for example. That was a fairly simple example, but basically what I'm saying is there is no single pivotal role in every match. You might loose a match because you can't score kills because your Mesmer can't shut anyone down. But, maybe it's not the Mesmers fault. Perhaps he's getting trained by the other team, or camped by a ranger. Then it falls to your teams Warrior to go hit in the ranger in the later occurance, or maybe your meleehate to mess with the ranger, or possibly even your monk using something like guardian to screw some of the rangers interrupts, or in the other example you might expect your monk to prot better, your meleehate to do more, or your warrior to come and lineback...

I hope this is sufficnetly clear, because I just wrote it in under two minutes and haven't even bothered to do any editing, or even really think about what I was going to say; I basically just started typing shit, and now I'm done and posting it. GOGOGOGO "fast reply box" ;o even though it doesn't make writing your reply any faster...

Legendary Shiz · Oct 12, 2007, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

Hm, well, I'm not asking how bad someone can be. I'm interested in what profession people think are more important.

You're not understanding what we're saying.

There is no one profession that dominates TA. It's individual skill, and team coordination/tactics that wins games.

Sorry bud, there's no straight answer for the question you're asking.

Dzan · Oct 12, 2007, 10:22 AM // 10:22

For the purposes of winning a single match, monk. If you're monk is trash you aren't going anywhere.

For the purposes of getting a lot of glad points, ranger. If you can't reliably catch most res sigs you are not going to go on long streaks in TA with a balanced build.

Seraphim of Chaos · Oct 12, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

You're not understanding what we're saying.

There is no one profession that dominates TA. It's individual skill, and team coordination/tactics that wins games.

Sorry bud, there's no straight answer for the question you're asking.

Dominate and Pivotal are two very different words. I know that it all relies on individual skill and coordination.

Since I don't think you understand my point, here is an example to illustrate. Suppose that all of the people on the same team have about the same skill level.
Maybe all of them are r4 Gladiator; they are different professions. (I'm not saying that titles prove skill, but you get my drift.) So who has one of the most game changing jobs? I'm expecting someone to reroute to the "This is a team game" argument, and I acknowledge that; however, that is besides the point in this topic.

moko · Oct 12, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

depends on the current meta, simple as that.

if there's a meta when there's heavy damage, either defense or good offense is important, while shutdown will be pretty useless.

in a hex heavy meta, you will want a mes for sure, or a very good ranger. (although i'd always like a very good ranger<3).

of course, basically, without a monk you are screwed, but whatever, this question is kinda dumb, there's really no actual answer to it, but whatever.

there's usually a balance between most chars, depending on the meta -- although i have to say rits and paragons ONLY fit into gimmicks..

Legendary Shiz · Oct 12, 2007, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

Dominate and Pivotal are two very different words. I know that it all relies on individual skill and coordination.

Since I don't think you understand my point, here is an example to illustrate. Suppose that all of the people on the same team have about the same skill level.
Maybe all of them are r4 Gladiator; they are different professions. (I'm not saying that titles prove skill, but you get my drift.) So who has one of the most game changing jobs? I'm expecting someone to reroute to the "This is a team game" argument, and I acknowledge that; however, that is besides the point in this topic.

Well I guess I'd stick what what I said before, if your monk is trash your team is phail.

But to be honest there really isn't one profession that's job is more game changing than another's, unless of course the build is focused solely around one skill then obviously that char would have to be good with that skill or the team phails.

Every time I try to drop my what I'm saying and simply answer your question it brings me back to what I'm trying to say.

There isn't one profession more important than another one (unless you're a rit, then you can suck away).

elektra_lucia · Oct 12, 2007, 12:22 PM // 12:22

I think a Monk.

Ruben · Oct 12, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Even if your monk is good and he only has veil and you have no interrupt against say a MoR Diversion/Shame spammer + Corrupt Enchantment, you lose.

I'd say Rangers are very "pivotal" in TA. Interrupts are always good, even against gay shit like SOMW spike, you can't die if you have a Ranger on your team.
Rangers (with bows, savage/dshot and a prep) are always good to have if your players don't suck too much. One dshot wins you games.
Plus, they can fit in any build with some sort of damage in it (read: melee).

Or, good PD mesmers, but their use is different.

bungusmaximus · Oct 12, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben

Even if your monk is good and he only has veil and you have no interrupt against say a MoR Diversion/Shame spammer + Corrupt Enchantment, you lose.

I'd say Rangers are very "pivotal" in TA. Interrupts are always good, even against gay shit like SOMW spike, you can't die if you have a Ranger on your team.
Rangers (with bows, savage/dshot and a prep) are always good to have if your players don't suck too much. One dshot wins you games.
Plus, they can fit in any build with some sort of damage in it (read: melee).

Or, good PD mesmers, but their use is different.

Then I would say interrupts are pivotal, because there's a hell of a lot more characters that can fulfill that role.

moko · Oct 12, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Then I would say interrupts are pivotal, because there's a hell of a lot more characters that can fulfill that role.

no. really only rangers. PD will NOT have the same effect, and nothing else could fulfill the role.

elektra_lucia · Oct 12, 2007, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben

Even if your monk is good and he only has veil and you have no interrupt against say a MoR Diversion/Shame spammer + Corrupt Enchantment, you lose.

I'd say Rangers are very "pivotal" in TA. Interrupts are always good, even against gay shit like SOMW spike, you can't die if you have a Ranger on your team.
Rangers (with bows, savage/dshot and a prep) are always good to have if your players don't suck too much. One dshot wins you games.
Plus, they can fit in any build with some sort of damage in it (read: melee).

Or, good PD mesmers, but their use is different.

Low energy set, pre-prot. You already mentioned veil. It can be worked around.

Again, I would feel better off knowing my 4th player slot was a good monk, than a good ranger.

Quote:

One dshot wins you games.

I'm sure it does. Not...

bungusmaximus · Oct 12, 2007, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

no. really only rangers. PD will NOT have the same effect, and nothing else could fulfill the role.

I meant the role of interrupt characters, not every successfull TA team runs rangers. They are bloody good tho, and indeed, one of a kind.

moko · Oct 12, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I meant the role of interrupt characters, not every successfull TA team runs rangers. They are bloody good tho, and indeed, one of a kind.

name others that can interrupt properly please.

Quote:

I'm sure it does. Not...

it actually does. i don't think you're much off a TA player, so..

Shuuda · Oct 12, 2007, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

I'm sure it does. Not...

I could do, depending on:

-what you interrupt.
-how you use the time it's disabled.

I would be wrong to say one D shot can win a match, but it opens a good window potenially.